So, I was thinking...

[moonlettuce]

How can someone justify charging $12 for a download only zine? Surely the cost of a zine is supposed to cover printing, binding and postage, all of which are eliminated by doing this electronically. Doesn't it mean that what you're doing is paying $12 for a url and password.

Maybe it's just me. Maybe this is the way zines are going to go. No more words on paper, just PayPal and passwords and $12 for doing what archivists have been doing free for years. ("Ooh, I html'ed this file, let's charge people money for it!!1!1one!!")

I mean, the words "frickin' rip-off" come to mind. But, you know, if I'm wrong here tell me.

Comments

[katemonkey.livejournal.com]

if it works, let me know, 'cause then I can make a bundle ;)

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

Well, they seem to have had some takers so far.

Maybe a few of us should get together and try it. We could finance a trip to a con or something *grin*

[thebratqueen.livejournal.com]

We should all write a sentence, like "Wesley sucked Angel's cock." and allow people to download it for a dollar. We'll tell them it's like getting a zine on sale.

[opheliafic.livejournal.com]

If your talking about the one I think you are, $12 is for the CD version, $8 was for the download but that could just be the US price.

Wait that doesn't make much difference does it? *grin*

You have a very good point dear, I keep telling myself it's so that people can save money and burn their own DVD of it. Still $8 for the URL and password, I donno something just doesn't feel right about that. I can see the money for the CD version - but - it still seems a bit high all the way around.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

You might want to pop on over to Amazon and have a look at how much e-books sell for before you start crying 'rip-off!', hon, though the listings there don't actually tell you how big the file is or whether there's internal art (which there is, by the bucketload in this novel).

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

Hmm, but surely the e-books are original fiction, not fanfiction and aren't therefore in the fannish tradition of writers of fanfiction providing their works for free or, if printed in a zine, for the physical cost of producing that zine. I'm thinking about the attitude towards Mysti Frank, who makes her living from selling zines and is much reviled for it because it is so out of the fannish norm.

I fail to see how $8 for the e-zine or $12 for a CD can possibly be described as 'cost'. I appreciate that people are prepared to pay for fannish art but a zine is not all, or mostly, art. So, what are the purchasers of this zine paying for exactly? The zine producers must be making a considerable profit. Very possibly in breach of copyright. As a lawyer this dismays me, because one of the reasons that TPTB don't bother to sue fanfiction writers and zine producers is because they are produced not for profit. Slippery slope, and all that.

Contrast this with the MAS zine, which costs $10 on CD and consists of original stories. As there are no copyright problems and because it's not a fannish product with the tradition of fans not charging other fans for their fanfiction I don't have any problems with the MAS zine concept. Whereas I do with the idea of a fannish zine that quite clearly is being sold for profit.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

How do you judge the equivalent cost of producing artwork, formatting etc. anyway? I have no idea what you have to do to get artwork 'right' if you don't have a print run, so there must be costs there I would have thought...

Personally, living outside the US, it's nice to have a method that gives me equal access for equal cost for once.

While I can see where you're coming from in terms of copyright issues, I'm puzzled by the idea that $10 for a cd is okay but $12 isn't, regardless of the contents. That comes across as something of a double standard, considering that the people buying either are more likely than not to be in some aspect of fandom.

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

How do you judge the equivalent cost of producing artwork, formatting etc. anyway?

The time for laying out the zine, formatting etc is done by paper zine producers for free. The cost of a paper zine is for the physical cost of the materials, plus postage. There may be a small profit which is usually ploughed back into the next zine. As there are pretty much no physical costs for an e-zine involved (playing around with the formatting of the artwork on a computer involves such minimal costs as to be meaningless) then the $8 is, in effect, pure profit.

I'm puzzled by the idea that $10 for a cd is okay but $12 isn't, regardless of the contents

You misunderstand my point. I included the cost of the MAS zine for information purposes only. $12 would be fine for the cost of the MAS zine, as well. It is the principle of the thing - fans making a profit out of other fans for fanfiction, not original fiction - that leaves a sour taste in the mouth.

If the SG1 zine was available for, say $25 for a paper-zine and, say $2 for a CD, plus postage to cover the physical cost of the CD that would be fine. But $8 for an e-zine and $12 for a CD is making large a profit at the expense of other fans.

[graculus.livejournal.com]

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here.

Having actually seen the download in question, I don't feel that it's the product of just a couple of hours tinkering and that the effort involved in creating it is therefore negligible. Likewise I don't feel ripped off or that the person producing the zine is making a profit off of me - like I said before, I compare the cost to that of an e-book, which is essentially what this is.

I know there's always been arguments over paper zines and how much is too much to charge since the days when they were chipped out on tablets of stone that our elder fen had to walk 3 miles uphill barefoot in the snow to get so I can't say I'm surprised that the argument transfers to new forms of technology.

My original post was in response to Claire's comment about how e-zines compared with html documents available freely online. I could hand code something of a similar size very quickly, but that doesn't mean I could also produce something of a comparable quality without time and effort.

[temaris.livejournal.com]

Let's see. Cost a book.

5% to the author. Fanzine: nothing to the author.
10% to the editor. Fanzine 10 % to editor?
25% to printers. Fanzine: 90% to printers
60% to publisher. Fanzine... er, unless you're Mysti Frank, no percentage left.

Cost a cd fanzine... nothing to author, check. 10% to editor/publisher, check. 90% to printer... er, what printer?

So that would be 100% to editor, yes?

Rip off city.

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

You is back! Wheeeeeeee!

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

Mini-fic for £1.50:

Angel looked at Wesley. "Let's fuck," he said.

"Okay, agreed Wesley.

So they did.

The End

*grin*

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

I have the same issues with e-books. Especially ones that charge the same price as hard-copy books. I think I get stuck on the 'no printing costs, so why are you asking people to pay the same price?' issue.

But, I guess as long as people are happy to pay the price and are happy with what they receive then that's their prerogative.

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

how much is too much to charge since the days when they were chipped out on tablets of stone that our elder fen had to walk 3 miles uphill barefoot in the snow to get

*grin*

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

I think that's part of the niggling feeling I get with download zines.

I will admit that with CD zines there's the cost of buying the CDs, printing the cover, printing the CD face design. But with download zines there is no overhead apart from time, and, like I said, archivists have giving that for free for years.

Maybe I just have this image of the future being charged-archives. £5 per month for access and so on.

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

Likewise I don't feel ripped off or that the person producing the zine is making a profit off of me

There we differ indeed. Paper zine producers (Mysti Frank excepted) don't make a profit off their zine readers. Why should the producers of an e-zine (which is likely to involve less rather than more effort to produce compared to a paper zine) make a profit? What makes them so special? Bet the actual writers who contributed to the zine don't see a single penny (or cent) of that profit.

And, what happened to the idea of producing a zine for the love of it, rather than for profit?

I guess you pays your money (or not) and makes your choice. But I regard the idea of charging for something that, as Claire says, archivists have been doing for free for years to indicate a disturbing trend.

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

I just have this horrible vision of the future with all fic archives charging money. But maybe that's me being a drama queen.

[opheliafic.livejournal.com]

To me in the end that will depend on the owner of the archive. Plus, keep in mind that would stir up a networks notice faster then a small zine charging money. You know they only look the other way for so long.

But that just MHO.