Tell Me What Annoys You!

[moonlettuce]

Okay, so I'm modding the 'Things That Annoy Me' panel that's running at connotations, and I don't want it to be just me standing there, ranting and frothing at the mouth. What I was thinking was a panel of what annoys us in fandom, and why they annoy us.

So, my question to you is exactly that.

What annoys you in fandom? Why does it annoy you? (Or is it one of those annoyances that you don't have a reason for, it just bugs you anyway?)

For me, the big one is author's notes that say 'I've never seen the show, but...' And it annoys me because what I'm reading (even if this isn't what the author intended) is the following:

- I don't care about the show enough to actually watch it.
- I don't care about my story enough to check that my canon / characterisation is okay.
- I don't care about the people who are going to read my story enough to check that my canon / characterisation is okay.
- I'm better than you are because I don't need to see the source material to write beautiful fic that everyone should love.

I write because I love the shows and I write because I love the characters. And I read for exactly the same reasons. What this means is that when I read the latest SGA epic, I want to recognise John and Rodney and Teyla and Ronon. I don't want to read Author B's interpretation of Author A's versions of those characters - especially if Author A's versions are already seven steps to the left of Whacksville. And because emo!cutting!omgsofatanduselessandnobodylovesme!Rodney bugs the crap out of me anyway, without other people thinking that's the characterisation they should base their McKay on.

Basically, for me the bottom line on this one is: if you can't be bothered to see the source material for the fandom you're writing in, I can't be bothered to read your story. Because my time is finite, and, hey, I'm probably not missing much.

Also: the word 'ficcy' drives me insane. But that's one of those irrational annoyances. You're reading NC-17 rated fic, people, stop speaking like six year olds!

So, yeah, hit me with your annoyances *grin*

Comments

[alyse]

Entitlement.

The idea that you are so important that everything should be given to you not only for free but on your terms and to your schedule.

To whit: archives, mailing lists and moderated communities.

Someone somewhere is either paying to provide the service to you and/or, even if the service is free (and that would be mailing lists but that's about all these days), devoting hours of their personal time in order to make the experience as smooth for you as possible. And it only runs smoothly when you realise that yes, Victoria, rules are not just there for other people.

No one is entitled to an archive, a mailing list, a community, fic they like to read or feedback on what they've written. You only get those things because other people have taken the time and spent the energy (and sometimes the cold, hard cash) to provide them for you.

A please and thank you occasionally would not go amiss.

[beren-writes.livejournal.com]

My biggest peeve in jrock is the "Sorry, English isn't my first language" excuse ... then please, please, please get a beta reader who's first language is English!!!! Some people who's first language is English make mistakes too, but they get a beta to sort it out.

I think people writing outside their first language are very brave, but they aren't going to win any friends if no one can stand to read it.

[beren-writes.livejournal.com]

Ooh and people who can't be bothered to read the community rules. It takes five minutes and then you are on the same page as everyone else.

[ngaio]

Someone who posts saying 'not beta-ed because I wrote it at midnight/on the train/while skydiving' and I always think ... 'and that *stops* you asking someone the next day to beta it?!

Bitching about the female characters to give an excuse as to why the men aren't with them as is canonical. In RPF making the girlfriends bitches or beards (in bandom, in popslash the beards thing is way more likely.) or just irrelevant in some way. Work *with* the canon, not against it people!

I have a colleague who dislikes slash, not because he's anti-gay or anything, but because he says whenever he's encountered it the impression he gets is that slashers think they're superior to other writers! I could ask him for further details if you wish!?

[alyse]

To be honest, I think that the 'slash writing is superior!' is a hangover from the early days of slash on the net, when it might actually have been true. It's just not true any longer.

If there was a time when the overall calibre of slash writing was higher than it was in other genres (and personally, I think it was at one point), that's only because of the way that the fandom skewed at the time. Slash writers tended to be the older, more experienced and been around the block a few times writers. Newbies tended to start in gen or het and didn't start writing slash until they'd made all their early mistakes in those gen and het stories - by the time they moved on to writing slash, they'd usually started to improve. Consequently, the writing reflected that, but even with that dynamic you still had marvellous gen and het stories and total drivel slash stories.

These days, however, with slash being much more prominent, more new writers are starting to write slash first off, and make their newbie mistakes there. Of course, I could be wrong about that, and it's because slash writers now skew younger and therefore haven't yet had their self-importance knocked out of them by age and experience ;)

[ngaio]

I think largely he's a victim of largely pursuing the Doctor Who fandom on message boards and the like which is therefore a largely a) slightly old fashioned and b) male dominated arena, thus making slash, and the women who write the slash (I know, large generalisation, but true nonetheless) probably fairly defensive.

Also, being Doctor Who, he doesn't see Doctor/Master as canon or likely with the current state of affairs and may have encountered some of the recent 'oh so slashy tv series but let's not make the effort to make the journey from hate to sex believable' slash which seems to be going round a bit.

I'm going to work on him, quiet loike, and see if I can change his mind!

[trobadora]

People who post to communities starting with, "I don't know if this is allowed, but..." - especially when the userinfo quite clearly states that it's not. Even more so if the phrase "feel free to delete this" makes an appearance. The mods are always free to delete; they don't need permission.

[fides.livejournal.com]

I think my most recent rant was here (http://fides.livejournal.com/228866.html).

Although emo characters are a tad irritating as well. Maybe I am just getting mean in my old age but I'd like severe emotional, physical or psychological trauma before the waterworks start. I will make exceptions for those characters who do start randomly bursting into tears on the show... just as soon as I find some. It is basic characterisation people, I know there are characters who are pretty when they cry or who set both ovaries and maternal instincts off when they get upset, all I ask is that you torture them properly first rather than turning them into premenstrual teenage girls with severe hormone imbalances.

But then I've written for shows that I haven't seen so ;-)

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

But then I've written for shows that I haven't seen so ;-)

Heathen! *grin*

[fides.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it helps not having seen the show. Really!

*Looks down the list* I've also written an AU where Kronos is noble, heroic and would probably do the washing up so I guess I am just perverse.

I thought of another peeve - it really bugs me when the hero (of whatever gender) succeeds so no reason that their name is on the door. Yes, I know they are going to win, I want them to win, but I also want a justification for why they win. This is especially the case when every expert and person with more knowledge than them tells them that they need to do X and with no other information and less understanding they decide to do Y - which turns out to be the right thing because everyone other than them wasn't the hero and didn't get the author's panties wet. There is nothing wrong with the hero having realisations and saving the day - but there should be some plot justification as to why they had those reasons and the more people (especially people who know what they are talking about or who have some stake in it) that the hero blows off to do it their way the more I want some reassurence that the hero saved the world through something more than the author crushing on them.

[lonelybrit]

Hmm, when folks cannot love a character A without saying repeatedly how horrid/terrible/boring Character B is in comparison. Just love, dammit, why does it have to go hand-in-hand with such vitriol. The same goes for shows too, when someone will say oh Show A is wonderful because unlike Show B it has plot/characterisation/decent actors, etc etc. Dude, just say you love your show, leave it at that.

Folks who hate a show and bitch about everything about it, but still persist in watching and jumping down anyone's throats if they dare say something nice about any aspect of it.

Also, when it comes to slash, to quote my wise friend Oracle 'There are no pussies in slash'. It bugs me when one guy is turned into a weeping damsel in distress. Though, to be honest, I'm learning to just accept it as often it is the younger writers who do this, and I know some of my early fics were abysmal in terms of characterisation, so can't really cast the first stone and all that :)

[zellieh]

"What annoys you in fandom?" - So, do you want that alphabetically or by order of "Aaaargh!"-ness? *grin*

People who warn for characters being gay in their fic headers. Because I read that as discrimination: "Eww! Gayness is so unnatural, weird, and yucky I have to warn normal people about it!" I don't mind people using 'slash' as a category, because in fandom it is a valid category, or warning generally for sexual/adult content, though.

The ever-popular "posted unbeta-ed" warning, and it's cousin, "I'm just writing this for fun." Because I read those two as "I can't be bothered. Insert your own punctuation here."

Unlinked pages in long stories or series. Because that's just annoying, having to wander around searching for part 2.

Well, I think that's enough from me. Thanks for letting me rant in your journal. I'm really looking forward to Connotations now! *g*

[graculus.livejournal.com]

Where to begin? ;)

AUs which aren't really AUs but are actually just movies with the character names changed to the characters from the show without any real consideration of whether the characters from the show might actually act that way if they were in those scenarios.

The healing power of the magic penis. Characters who are beaten within an inch of their lives, or horribly brutalised, but really really want to have sex despite their physical injuries and psychological trauma.

Mpreg. Do I need to say more? It takes an extremely good writer, in a universe where it makes sense in some way, to make mpreg work and yet most of the people who write it just aren't up to the job of convincing those of us who have more than three functioning braincells to suspend our disbelief that much.

Warnings for the characters being OOC. Dude, if you know they're OOC and you're determined to write them anyway, do us a favour... change the character names and pretend it's original fic.

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

Warnings for the characters being OOC. Dude, if you know they're OOC and you're determined to write them anyway, do us a favour... change the character names and pretend it's original fic.

Oh, gods, YES! That bugs me, too. Dude! If you're telling us that you know 'Daniel would never do this, but', then why the flaming hell are you writing him doing it?

[parthenia14.livejournal.com]

Characters waking up gay at 25.

People who have decided they hate the fandom and stick around to whine and complain (yes, Harry Potter fans, I'm looking at you).

People who say that they could have written the entire series far better than JK Rowling, and with a lot more gratuitous sex.

That probably gets wrapped up by 'fannish entitlement'.

Fluffy fic themed around Christmas.

Academics. Especially humourless male feminists.

The hive mind. Fannish hysteria and fannish dogpiles (see 'meta' and 'strikeout')

God I think I'd better stop there, and wipe away the froth.

[ceteramisto.livejournal.com]

I have several annoyances, but my biggest is the idea that someone who will read anything if it's written well is a better fan than someone who has preferences. While I do believe that any show, character, pairing, trope, etc., has the potential to be written well, I also believe that no matter how well written a story is there is no way it will appeal to everyone.

My other big annoyance is the exact opposite. I can't stand it when someone says that a show, character, pairing, trope, etc. is always fluffy, OOC, Over-the-top-angsty, or otherwise just otherwise has bad fanfic. Especially when coupled with how that person's favorite whatever is always better.

[bcassie.livejournal.com]

Character bashing in a slash pairing. What I mean by that is using a story narrative or POV that is obviously reflecting the author's own feelings, where character A is God's gift to humanity and any faults he does have are just endearing. Character B on the other hand is not worthy of character A's love since his many unforgivable faults make him lower than a worm. I've noticed this mostly in dS fandom where Vecchio is a prince among men and Fraser is a weak, needy jerk.

I don't understand why people write a slash pairing when it's obvious they really don't like one of the characters. It's a real killjoy when you keep coming across these types of fics, especially when it's a character you like who's being put down.

[ceteramisto.livejournal.com]

That's not limited to slash pairings. I've come across more than enough het pairings with the same dynamic. I've run across both Buffy/Spike and Buffy/Angel fans who seem to really hate Buffy.

[kaizoku.livejournal.com]

where Vecchio is a prince among men and Fraser is a weak, needy jerk.

*blinks, wipes eyes, looks again* Really? No, really? I guess I haven't read much Vecchio/Fraser... "Weak, needy jerk"? What, where?

[xandutch.livejournal.com]

WIPs where every chapter has lengthy apologies about it having taking so long to post the next chapter, about the author not being happy with the chapter and denigrating their own work, author notes that are larger than the damn chapter, apologies for the length(!) of the chapter*, apologies for how short the chapter is, and on and on. Bitch, I just found your story. I get to read all of this at once while searching for the inbetween fic.

*This one just completely boggles me. I'm reading your fic because I like it and want to, what makes you think I would mind a lengthy part? If I didn't like it I wouldn't be reading it so then the length wouldn't be an issue either way.

I love AUs of any kind, but I am annoyed by AUs that haven't been thought through. I mean the 'if this one little thing changed, how would the canon happen' kind. Too often the author takes one change they like and runs with it, but forgets to change the rest of the universe around it. Which could also frequently be caused by insufficient knowledge of canon, so I guess it ties in with yours a little. I call this my 'There is no vampire Jesse in the Wishverse' thing.

[cat-77.livejournal.com]

Things that annoy me in fandom...

- Characterization, or lack there of. If someone acts a certain way in 98% of all cannon while not possessed/drugged/body swapped/etc, the chances are that they are not suddenly going to change. A subcategory of this that pisses me off the most is a male character suddenly going ultra femme if in a homosexual relationship (or a female character suddenly going ultra butch , but this doesn't happen as often). If it's not in the character's nature to act that way, THEY ARE NOT GOING TO ACT THAT WAY.

- Requests for feeback with exceptions. I'm talking about the people who *love* feedback, as long as it's all positive. Usually these are the same people who go off on someone for asking, "did you mean 'your' or 'you're' in this sentence?" No, it's not flaming if it's pointed out nicely. I'd personally rather know about anything like that so I can fix it.

- People who post to certain archives just to make a point. If your story is graphic het, don't post to a slash archive and if your story is graphic slash, don't post to a het archive. At least don't and then wonder why you're not getting a lot of hits and/or positive feedback.

- People who consider a story to be Gen even if it has an obvious relationship (either slash or het) because, "well, it should be that way" or "they are *so* doing it, so it's cannon, right?"

Those would be my big pet peeves. Unfortunately, they happen a lot more often than you would think.

And yet more to add to the pile

[alyse]

I've never seen the show, but...

To this I would like to add people who claim to be fans of shows they've never seen. Not shows that they have no chance in heaven of seeing, because they're very difficult to get a hold of, but bog standard, currently airing shows that you can get a hold of with very little effort on their point.

Dude. Just no. You might be a fan of the fandom but if you were a fan of the show, you'd actually make some effort to watch it. At least once.

And to that I'd add 'people who take it as a personal affront when you point this out, even though you weren't talking to them and weren't even aware they hadn't seen the effin' show'.

The fandom =/= the show. One of these things is on TV. The other is not, unless I snap and kill them all, in which case it might appear on the evening news.

Also, people who watch a show just so they can point out how crap it is. At length. To the fans of the show. In forums related to the show.

People who complain bitterly and at length about how their friendslist is full of show X and they're tired of hearing it, when their friendslist consists of fannish journals. Dude. Do what the rest of us do and skim past it. If it bothers you that much, defriend or filter but do not murder the squee. Even if you think it sucks. See previous point.

People who whine that no one is writing their favourite pairing. I don't mean the occasional wistful comment, but the whole constant barrage of never ending whining, slagging off popular pairings, conspiracy theory crap. Especially if they also rant about how they're tired of being told that if there isn't enough fic out there they should write some, or organise ficathons or feedback the authors who are writing it. Because apparently this means that because they want that pairing, everyone else should stop writing the pairings they want to write and start writing Entitlement Fan's pairing instead. Or Entitlement Fan is being oppressed.

People who think that popular automatically means crap and that they are innately superior for shipping a non-popular pairing. Dude. Talk to me when you start shipping Hank/Hector and then you get to play the elitist 'no one understands my greatness' card.

Fen. In general. Meh.

Is that enough to be going on with? ::g::

Re: And yet more to add to the pile

[ceteramisto.livejournal.com]

People who whine that no one is writing their favourite pairing. I don't mean the occasional wistful comment, but the whole constant barrage of never ending whining, slagging off popular pairings, conspiracy theory crap. Especially if they also rant about how they're tired of being told that if there isn't enough fic out there they should write some, or organise ficathons or feedback the authors who are writing it. Because apparently this means that because they want that pairing, everyone else should stop writing the pairings they want to write and start writing Entitlement Fan's pairing instead. Or Entitlement Fan is being oppressed.

I so agree with this. Especially since a lot of the fans of the popular pairing are very willing to write some of the rarer pairings if asked or encouraged in a positive way such as ficathons or prompt requests. Yes, some writers of the popular pairing may not like a specific rare pairings, but if the fandom has enough characters most writers have one or more rare pairings that they are willing to write.

However, if all the rare pairing fan does is call fans of popular pairings sheep and claim to be oppressed because the popular pairing fan does not like a certain rare pairing and should not mention their dislike anywhere, the popular pairing fans may just dig in their heels more into their pairing and not bother to write rare pairings any more.

[zortified.livejournal.com]

What annoys me are people who pick nicknames (semi-permanent ones, like lj accounts) that include the name of one of the characters. Like Mrsdeanwinchester or something. Yes, we did this when we were twelve. We're not twelve, anymore.

It's the self-absorbed mindset that says 'I am the only one in this entire fandom special enough to like Dean enough to marry him!'

Er, only not.

Actually, any attitude in fandom that says 'my needs are more important than your needs.' Not in the sense of asking for basic courtesy like 'please don't post spoilers in the comments of my own LJ posts!' but like.. of course now I can't think of any examples. Maybe just 'people lose all sense of manners and decency when they get online.'

Shortening pairing names to a single word annoys me. I don't know who they're referring to - and it isn't like typing out the characters' names is going to kill your fingers. This isn't pay-by-character, like old-style texting was.

Oh! Oh, oh. People who post to lists or comms and say 'I don't know if this is allowed! If it isn't, please delete!' If I ran a comm that had this sort of post, I would delete it anyway, just on principle. We are not your mother, it isn't our job to clean up after you and we certainly don't need your permission to enforce the rules! There is almost always a rules or FAQ post, and a contact email to ask a moderator if your post is OK. (I used to get this all the time when I ran mailing lists, not people asking is it OK but just posting - despite the clear and readily available rules that said what could NOT be posted. People always think 'well, MY post is important enough to be an exception!'

[moonlettuce.livejournal.com]

Oh! Oh, oh. People who post to lists or comms and say 'I don't know if this is allowed! If it isn't, please delete!'

I hate that! One of my comms actually says in the rules that if you post something off topic without checking it with one of the mods first, then it's automatic deletion for the post. Good to know it's not just me that it bugs *g*

[zellieh]

"Shortening pairing names to a single word annoys me. I don't know who they're referring to - and it isn't like typing out the characters' names is going to kill your fingers. This isn't pay-by-character, like old-style texting was."

That one also annoys me. The first time I saw an SGA fic with 'Sparky'* in the header, it really confused me. 'McShep' makes me wince. Also, some fans aren't native English speakers, so those portmanteau pairing-names can be a real problem. Gah.

*(Sheppard/Weir, apparently. I still haven't worked out *why* that gets called 'Sparky' though.)

[montanaharper]

Note: It's possible I'm PMSing, so feel free to take with a grain of salt or ignore entirely. *g*

People who make no effort to get their story checked by someone who's a native of the country where the story is set. This means American Harry Potter fans who don't have their work Brit-checked, as well as British Supernatural fans who don't have an American beta. If I see Harry and co. "graduate" one more time, or if Sam and Dean "ring" each other's "mobiles" and carry "torches," I'm going to have to hurt someone.

People who make canon errors that are OMG so obvious to anyone who's watched the show even once. THE IMAPALA DOES NOT HAVE A MANUAL TRANSMISSION OMG!!!11! *breathes*

People who act like the simple existence of Fanfic Type A means that there's somehow less space in the universe for Fanfic Types B-Z. (For Fanfic Type A, please feel free to substitute any or all of the following: slash, wincest, mcshep, harry/snape, etc.)

People who claim to be fans of a show, but never have anything but criticism when it comes to the storylines, the characterization, the acting, the directing, etc.

People.

Yes, that about sums it up.

[rhade-rad.livejournal.com]

People who can't/won't use spell check or Google/wikipedia for a quick fact check, never mind going to the extreme in using a beta reader. Oh and if you can't spell the characters names correctly why should I read more than the first paragraph?

People who can't/won't call a cock a cock. Coyness in general.

Those with an overwhelming urge to reclaim or domesticise the bad guy. What ever AU you come up with Kronos still won't do the washing up: that's what slaves are for.

Long introductions 'explaining' the fic. If you can't tell the story in the story why publish it?

People who sulk and throw tantrums when offered even the slightest hint of constructive criticism: er Ioluas is actually spelled Iolaus.

People who read far more into casual encounters with their heroes than is dreamt of in our reality. Meeting the gaze of your star across a crowded bar and having him/her return your smile is not the start of some mystical communing or a beautiful friendship, it's an actor being polite.

I'll try to recall some more for the session.

[planetkiller.livejournal.com]

I really hate it when people are too lazy to think up their own original evil character so they take a canon character that they don't like too much and turn them into an evil puppy-raping, cat-killing murderer. (SGA fandom! I am looking at you and your obsession with evil!Kavanagh!)

Or when people ignore the existance of main characters in order to bring in their favourite background/secondary characters/people from another tv show. (SGA fandom! Teyla and Ronan are important! Stop leaving them out so Lorne and Jack O'Neill can go offworld with John and Rodney!)

This is more a reader thing, but I hate it when people comment on your fics just to point out a minor detail they didn't agree with/didn't like. If I have Character A and I mention once that he's from Boston and I mention five paragraphs later that he thinks it's really stupid for there to be pedestrian bridges across six lanes of traffic, don't comment just to say, "It doesn't make sense for him to think those bridges are stupid because in Boston we drive 120 mph on sidewalks." That wasn't really that important in the long run. Or if I name Character B something that makes you think of RealLifePerson C, that's great. Don't comment saying, "I hope B wasn't a reference to C. Because that's screwed up." Especially if B is a background character. I might've just pulled a name out of thin air and not even thought about whatever you don't like.

*mops up after self* Sorry for ranting at you like that.